[SGVLUG] FC repository searches

[Dustin Laurence]

On Tue, Sep 12, 2006 at 03:46:56PM -0700, Jeff Carlson wrote:
> 
> Well then why do I always hear Debian users talking about
> "dist-upgrade?"

I couldn't tell you, but maybe random bits of conversation aren't the
best way to learn to use a tool that touches everything on your system?
:-)

> ...And why is it every time I did "upgrade," I got back a
> list of packages that were "held back?"

Because apt-get was helpfully telling you what was pending for a
dist-upgrade.  It isn't *bad* to have things held back....

Beyond that, I can't help you.  I'm guessing that you ran Sid and I
haven't really used Sid extensively (because I tended to run Gentoo in
places where Sid made sense), though this may change.  You probably
dist-upgrade Sid a lot more often, but even there I doubt you should
just do it randomly.  I gather the GCC 3 -> GCC 4 C++ ABI transition was
rough and needed some care, and probably wouldn't happen on any
individual machine until you actually did 'dist-upgrade'.

Beyond that, maybe someone on the list who runs Sid can comment on the
proper use of apt-get for Debian Unstable.

> I don't know why Debian is saying stuff that reminds me of the slow kid
> in elementary school who had to repeat the 2nd grade, but yum never
> holds back.  Packages ready for upgrade just upgrade.

Extra information (what would happen if you upgraded the distro) is
never a bad thing.  In fact, for Sid it's probably very necessary.  If
all that is pending for a dist-upgrade is stuff you don't mind breaking,
go for it.  If it's gcc and libstdc++, you might want to check and see
if there's an ABI transition in progress before you break every C++
binary on your box. :-)

I repeat that Sid isn't really analogous to Fedora--Ubuntu is.  Sid is a
continual rolling upgrade that is somewhere between running a Fedora
release and continually upgrading to current CVS snapshots (to truly run
Debian snapshots would be to run Debian Experimental, which is
crazy--Sid is what all the developers themselves run on their desktops,
so when something breaks Sid it tends to get fixed).  Sid can be more
bleeding edge than a released distro (packages can upgrade when they're
ready and not wait for an official release date) but it means that you
need some care.  Having 'dist-upgrade' distinct from 'upgrade' helps you
take that care.

> > Eventually...but there was a very unsettling gap.
> 
> I never even noticed it.

It was unsettling because all of us running RHL were suddenly wondering
what we would run.  The existence of Fedora was not at all obvious, so
it was like having the rug pulled out from under you.  As another poster
said, it wasn't well handled.  In fact, it was probably about as badly
handled as it could be without actually mailing boxes of dead fish heads
to their former subscribers. :-)

It reminds me of GM's handling of the EV1 recall.  I never understand
how companies can slash their wrists so badly, but I guess it isn't
obvious at the time.

> > You know the joke about people saying "I run Linux 5.3", meaning that
> > there is a huge crowd of people that don't even realize that there is a
> > difference between RHL and Linux?  The newer people don't even get the
> > joke anymore.  I think understanding the joke and the fact that it isn't
> > current anymore explains almost everything about the "big deal."
> 
> Except there never was a RHL version 5.3, only 5.2,

I have old RedHat Disks from the 5.x series somewhere, and some labeled
x.3, but I can't remember individual releases.  Perhaps I remember 6.3,
if that existed.

I think before the 5 series I tended to just borrow installation media,
so I don't have anything earlier than that laying around (and I hope I
didn't clean out RH 5 in an office cleanup--they're kinda neat to have
now).

Dustin

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